257. About Mental Skills for Marathon Runners with Chris Knighton

[00:00:00] You're listening to episode 257 of the Marathon Running Podcast. In this episode, we're going to talk about training and mindset. This is the Marathon Running Podcast and Letty Run's YouTube channel with Letty and Ryan. And yes, we're officially now on all channels. Join us for weekly content on all things running and let us take you from the starting line to the finish line and beyond.

[00:00:26] Hey runners and welcome to our podcast. My name is Letty. My name is also Letty. And his name is really Ryan and he's my co-host, even though today he identifies with me. But we are the hosts of the weekly Marathon Running Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. We are also hosting a YouTube channel, which you can find on YouTube under at running podcast, where we do tons of fun stuff, show reviews and vlogs, etc.

[00:00:55] So you're very welcome to check that out. And today we're here to talk to you about training and mindset is important. Training your mindset. Yes. So how do you train your mindset? Well, you'll find out today because today I talked to Chris Knighton, who is a running coach from Knighton Runs, who has been a guest on our podcast many, many times. He is also in the process of writing a new book on mindset training.

[00:01:20] And you guys know if you've listened to any of my previous episodes, how much I think mindset is important, because I feel like you can physically train yourself and see results and you can do little tweaks, almost a twerks, but tweaks and change things up. But you can't really know what's going on between those two ears. Every person is different. And there's a reason why some people do better than others, even though they do the same training. If they're similar in genetics, sometimes there's more to it. And that really intrigues me.

[00:01:50] Yeah. In a lot of cases, people definitely quit prior to their bodies quitting. They quit because of their mind and because, you know, just their feeling of the sensory feelings that your body's getting says that, oh, I'm doing too much. I need to stop. It overwhelms them and then they end up stopping. But there's a lot you can train in order to improve that or lengthen that in order to endure more. Exactly. And Ryan, I'm going to put you on the spot for this one. Uh-oh.

[00:02:16] Because every time I interview somebody on Mindset, I tell them my story with you and I don't think you're even aware of it. I always tell them that whenever I get tired, I remember your words to me, which are just enjoy it. You're doing this for fun. And then I let off the pace and I suck. And then later on, I'm like, how can I change that? Yeah.

[00:02:39] I mean, I think so for more background in that, you know, especially with marathons, I mean, you're not, no offense, you're not the elite marathoner. You're not going for prize money. It doesn't really matter. I mean, yes, for your own confidence or whatever, you want a good time. But I mean, you're there to enjoy it and to enjoy the experience. But I feel like that kind of backfired because now I use that as my excuse every time I get tired. Well, yeah, that's true. That's a mindset issue. You shouldn't use it as an excuse to run slower.

[00:03:09] I mean, the biggest, the only thing I can say to that is that the ability of the body is much greater than what the mind will let you believe. And a lot of cases, your mind tells you to stop before your body does. And in rare cases, and you see it when people are getting heat stroke or they're throwing up or passing out, that's when the body is quit. But in most cases, people start walking way before that. And there is some danger in pushing the limits.

[00:03:39] But to know that there is usually more in the tank for most people. So I'm going to overwrite your previous conversation. I guess. You just like teeter between the two of them, depending on how you feel. I think you said that to me in order to make me feel more comfortable because I was nervous. Yeah. But then I took that to a whole new level that every time I'm in pain, I think of that. You think of stopping. Yeah. But anyway, so are you ready to hop into our conversation with Chris Knighton? All right.

[00:04:07] So without any further ado, we're now going to play our conversation with Chris Knighton. All right. So I'm back on with Chris Knighton. Chris, thank you so much for joining us again. Hey, Waddy. I'm happy to be back. Always love being on your show. We love having you. And most people know you. But maybe a quick summary for those who have never seen you, because now we can also see Chris on YouTube because the interviews are now also on YouTube.

[00:04:32] So maybe do a little rundown of who you are and how you became an expert in this run coaching business. Yeah, my name is Chris Knighton. I am a running coach and avid runner myself. 37, live in Providence, Rhode Island, and have been coaching full time for about the past five years. I coach adults primarily for marathons and half marathons.

[00:04:57] A lot of folks who like to do the world marathon majors, qualify for Boston, that kind of thing. And I'm also a high school running coach with my wife. So we coach high school cross country, indoor track and outdoor track year round as well with a high school girls team. Big fan of the sport professional level as well. And yeah, just love talking about running. Yes.

[00:05:21] And you also authored a couple of, well, you authored one book and are in the process of publishing a second book. And we are going to talk in this very interview a little bit about an aspect that has to do with training and mindset that you're going to be talking about. So maybe tell us just a tiny bit about your second book that you're writing right now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:42] So I've been thinking a lot about mental skills for marathoners and runners in general, but specifically marathoners, because the marathon is such a daunting event. It's the one event where you don't really ever run the distance in training, except for when you're actually there at the race. And, you know, if you're a more advanced runner, you're also probably trying to run it pretty fast, a lot faster than you are doing in training a lot.

[00:06:10] So confidence is such a big part of marathon running. I think going into a race with confidence is the most valuable thing that you can have. So I'm working on a course, which will potentially become a book in the future, too, all about mental skills for marathon runners. Perfect.

[00:06:33] And, you know, I'm a huge fan of that sort of thing because it's always not easy, but it's easier to have something on paper that you then follow physically. You can see your improvements in what you look like. And obviously, when you do time trials, you see how much faster you've gotten. However, you don't know what's going on between those two years. And so we're going to talk about that. So let's get started and talk about the fact that many runners do get caught up in chasing specific time and so times.

[00:07:00] And so maybe you can explain the difference between the process versus the destination goals and how shifting idea focus can help those people. Yeah. Yeah. So I think one of the best things that you can do is set motivating goals for yourself.

[00:07:17] You know, I've always found both with my own running as well as the people that I coach, if they don't have a race on the calendar, if they don't have motivating goals, it's really hard to get out and do the day-to-day work and push yourself sometimes with the less enjoyable parts of training. If you don't have those big goals, if you don't have those big goals, something you're working towards.

[00:07:40] So, you know, a lot of folks who I work with, adults, you know, maybe they've run for a while and, you know, maybe they've never really followed a training plan before. They just go out and they run, they do the fun, easy runs. But then, you know, when they commit to a motivating goal, maybe that's running their first marathon or maybe that's running their second marathon, but doing it really well and running a good time.

[00:08:10] They often, you know, need to take on a more challenging and comprehensive training plan, a plan that's going to have many different elements to it, not just going out and running, but giving every specific run a purpose and knowing exactly why you're doing each thing.

[00:08:30] I like to think that training is generally pretty fun, but, you know, there's an element of willpower involved in there and having motivating goals that are going to be something that you're chasing is going to get you out the door instead of just taking the day off or being lazy with it. So that's the first thing is like, you need to have a race on the calendar, you need to have motivating goals if you want to improve in the sport.

[00:09:02] However, when you're actually out there training and doing the day to day, I think it's really, really important to let the goal be the destination that you're working towards. But learning to love the day to day process is what's going to keep you keep you in the sport long term.

[00:09:29] Often when people get too hung up on a goal, they don't have the patience that they need to get there when they reach setbacks or they're so fixated on that goal that they rush the process and don't run at the level they're at now. And instead, they just try to force where they want to be. So.

[00:09:54] There's a big difference when you're training between where you are now and where you want to be. But if you have a motivating goal to work towards and you're, you know, understanding why you're doing the types of runs that you're doing and you're patient and you're determined and you run at the level that you're at, you're eventually going to rise to the level you need to be to reach your goals.

[00:10:19] So there's a big difference between running by effort level and running for running at a specific pace or running at a pace you want to be at. And one of the things that I always encourage my athletes to do is to learn what different race paces and effort levels should feel like and learn to run at those efforts.

[00:10:45] And trust that over time when you're doing the right things, you're eventually going to get faster and faster and faster. Your effort level is actually going to stay the same, but your speed is going to increase and you'll eventually reach your goals when you follow that process. Okay, perfect. And when you are talking, just to clarify, about motivating goals, are those time goals that you're talking about? Could be time goals. It could be placement goals.

[00:11:13] Could be, you know, winning your age group if you're a master's runner, being in the top three. It could be running a Boston qualifying time. You know, it could be more of a process-based goal. Like, you know, maybe you've run a marathon before, but you hit the wall really hard. Now in the second marathon, you actually want to finish it feeling good and getting strong in those last six miles.

[00:11:42] Goals can be diverse. It could be many different things. But the most important thing is that it's a goal that excites you and it motivates you and makes you want to push harder and work hard and get out of your comfort zone a little bit. And it's going to be something that, like, you're willing to work for week after week, month after month, even if you're not there yet.

[00:12:05] But trust that through time, through consistency, through dedication and continued effort, you're going to rise to that level. And knowing what those goals are for yourself is really important. Yeah. That makes sense. That kind of goes hand in hand with the whole finding your whys as well, right? Yeah, for sure. And, you know, that's going to shift over time, too. I mean, it certainly has for me.

[00:12:34] I've been in the sport as a runner myself for close to a decade. And, like, yeah, I mean, I'm always shifting what's motivating for me. But having something and having it be motivating enough that you're willing to put in the work is essential. I think one of the biggest things I try to avoid with my athletes is when they just, like, don't have any race on the calendar.

[00:13:01] Like, I hate it when my athletes have no races on the calendar because they always, without a doubt, flounder and generally lose fitness, lose interest, which can be good at times. Like, this past winter, I've not really been racing and I don't have any races on the calendar right now. But I've needed that mental break. But, you know, I'm willing to accept that, like, yeah, I'm losing some fitness, but it's good.

[00:13:26] But if you're performance driven, if you want to improve, if you have these big goals for the near long term, like, yeah, you need to have something. Find something that's motivating for you. That makes so much sense, Chris, that you say that because I think maybe that's the number one reason why I don't like going to the gym and doing workouts. You know, just because with a marathon, if you have one, I usually have one or two a year on the calendar. I know there's something coming up that I need to work towards.

[00:13:55] But if I go to the gym, I'm just kind of lost. There's no plan. There's no bodybuilding competition. I don't know. You know, it's like you just kind of do that. Yeah, I think that's totally, totally true. So one of my athletes, this goes hand in hand with the whole mental skills of running. She just asked me, like, she's been doing a lot of cross training as she kind of recovers from an injury.

[00:14:21] And, you know, she was like, I've been swimming, finding it really unmotivating to go. I don't really like it. You know, what are some ideas? What could I do for cross training? And I kind of turned the question around to her. I was like, well, what do you enjoy? Um, I think one of the biggest things with runners is obviously we love to run. Like you just said, with strength training, it's so common for runners to not really enjoy strength training,

[00:14:49] to not really have that intrinsic motivation when they do it and not really have any goals they're chasing. Um, same thing with cross training. Like a lot of people will do spin on a bike or bike outside. Um, maybe they swim, maybe they do elliptical, but they probably don't really love that stuff. Usually, uh, so it's not fun.

[00:15:07] And what I found is, you know, I just don't think it's like realistic that we're gonna do something that we don't really enjoy. But, and we only have so much willpower and like, we're not professional athletes, most of us. So like we're working out and exercising shouldn't be work. It should be fun. So I turned this question around to my female athlete. I was speaking of, I was like, what do you enjoy?

[00:15:37] You know, well, you should be doing some kind of cross training right now because you aren't running as much, but like, it can be literally any kind of movement that you like. I mean, sure. You don't love swimming. That's fine. Um, maybe you like playing pickleball or basketball or like hiking on the weekends. Or for me, um, I started doing yoga pretty seriously within the past three months.

[00:16:04] I've been doing yoga like four to five times a week. And like, I've never been consistent about strength training. I've never had any goals with it. Like you, like you were saying, Letty, you know, I've never had like a bench press goal or like a pushup goal. That was that motivating or anything like that. I've never really cared about like building muscle mass.

[00:16:24] But yoga has been awesome for me because it's, um, this, a side effect of it is strength, mobility, balance, um, like neuromuscular coordination, all these things that are good to support my running and support my overall physical health. But that's a side effect of why I go to yoga. Now I go to yoga primarily for the mental health benefits and, um, because I enjoy it because it's fun.

[00:16:54] And I don't think of it as, you know, like something boring that I'm doing to support my running. Like I kind of always thought with strength training when I personally did it. That's awesome. No, that's, that's a good point. And if we find that, then we can kind of work towards how to best use it for our running goals. So as long as we can shift that thinking, right.

[00:17:21] So talk a little bit about having confidence in your training, which obviously if you have confidence in your training, you're going to shine more on race day. What do you have to say about that? Yeah.

[00:17:36] So, uh, we were just talking about having goals, you know, first you got to set a goal, but then obviously you need to do the work to get there and having confidence in your training, I think is maybe the most important thing. Um, you know, in order to run your best, be it in a marathon or, or any race, you need to be confident going into it. You have to believe in yourself.

[00:18:05] I think self doubt is perhaps the biggest thing that can prevent you from reaching your potential, um, to run to our best. We need both a strong mind and a strong body. Obviously with all of our training, we're training our body, but if we don't have a strong mind, if we haven't built that confidence along the way and don't believe in ourselves, we're not going to be able to.

[00:18:33] Utilize the body that we've built to the best of our ability. So without a strong mind, really, our body is nothing. Um, and, and I've, I've seen this with my athletes. I mean, I've, I've seen many people who just mentally have challenged, have been challenged with pushing themselves and competing.

[00:18:54] And, and, and I know they are a lot faster than they're able to do in races, but mentally they, they don't believe in themselves or they have doubts or worries, um, in one, one way or the other. And it prevents them from, from getting the most of themselves. Um, you know, whereas like I could see somebody else who's done the exact same training, who has the same level of talent, but they, they show up to the starting line feeling tremendously confident.

[00:19:23] They know how to pace themselves and how to handle different types of situations. And, uh, you know, have done the work to get there to build that confidence. Cause it doesn't just come naturally for most people. Um, and, and that person with the confidence is going to perform better just about every single time. Um, there's many ways to develop confidence in your training.

[00:19:47] Uh, you know, we could talk about this for quite a while, but I think some of the most important things are, um, one, the first of all, it's, it's having, having faith in your plan or in your, your, your coaching situation.

[00:20:03] I think one of the most valuable things about working with a coach is you can put trust into that person and that person's experience, um, and just, you know, believe that they are, they've set you up for success. Um, I think most people are, are better in a situation where, where they're coached by somebody than when they self coach, just because when you self coach, there's always.

[00:20:30] There's this level of doubt of, if you did enough, or if you, um, analyzed yourself correctly, if you did all the training correctly, all this questioning of yourself, but, you know, with the folks I work with high school girls and adults of all ages, you know, I tell them like, I tell them. You know, like it is, you know, we meet before a race, we talk about what to do. Um, I, I, I, you know, I say, yeah, you're ready. Or, you know, maybe you're not as ready as we hoped.

[00:20:59] And, and this is how you should handle that. But, you know, I, I give, tell them like it is and set them up for success. And I think that that's really, really powerful, but finding some way to have faith in your program and believe that you've done everything that you can do, um, is really, really valuable. You don't want to have any doubts when you get to the starting line. Um, the confidence is key.

[00:21:25] Even if it's confidence that you maybe are a little underprepared or you're less prepared than you wanted to be, or you're maybe a little injured. Um, just accept the way things are and then run to the best that you can, given the reality of the situation. Um, running and competing is really simple. Running is one of the simplest sports. Uh, race strategy is pretty similar in most events.

[00:21:52] Um, you just need to recognize where you're at, uh, understand the training that you've done and have a good sense of what your abilities are. And then, and then, you know, have the confidence to get out of your own way and just execute to the best of your ability. Um, if you can do that, you're going to perform the best that you can 99% of the time and, uh, way better than if you have doubts and uncertainty about your abilities. I like that.

[00:22:21] And I totally agree. You know, having a coach in your corner just adds to that confidence because there's no training plan or. Anything that can be a substitute for the confirmation. And feedback from another person that tells you, you know, you're there or you're not there. So you're going to do this. Um, somebody who's an expert at it. So that's a hundred percent super interesting.

[00:22:45] Another question about these training sessions is the handling of bumps in the road, right? The thing is that your races are not always going to go the way they do. So how do you translate that into a learning experience or how can you use that to propel you forward? So you can do better on your next race. Yeah.

[00:23:10] Um, so a lot of this comes with experience, but you know, I think that some things to keep in mind are that like bumps in the road are totally normal. Um, failure, if you want to call it, that is totally normal. Um, nobody's running career is a hundred percent perfect. Nobody PR is forever.

[00:23:34] People have bad races, bad workouts, bad runs, you know, um, for most folks injury can be a normal part of the sport. Um, but I can say from experience, like if you have the love of the sport, the dedication and the willingness to come back, people always come back stronger. So, you know, bumps in the road are totally normal.

[00:24:03] Um, a few specific examples, like warm, like let's, let's say, uh, you don't feel good on a run. Um, I have this kind of rule of thumb or this thing that I always tell folks is like, don't worry about how you feel on a run for the first 20 or 30 minutes. Um, or as crazy as the sounds are like two, three, four miles.

[00:24:32] I can think of hundreds of runs where I personally felt like crap for the first few miles. And then after running for like 20, 30 minutes, sometimes even more, I feel amazing at the end. So that's totally normal. Um, I've had some of my best workouts after what felt like the worst warmup. I've had some of my best races after what felt like a terrible warmup.

[00:25:02] I think a lot of times, um, as runners, like we might go out, we might start a run. We feel like crap right away, or maybe we don't feel good before the run. And we just assume we're going to have a bad run because we're tired or sore or whatever. Our bodies play a lot of tricks on us. And so does our mind, I think. And I think it's just like, it's just good to know from experience and remind yourself, like, just cause you don't feel great.

[00:25:32] Doesn't mean you're not going to run well. Likewise, I've been sick or have coached people who've been sick and then they go and they run really well. So a lot of, a lot of these things, like, you know, just don't, don't worry about how you feel sometimes. I mean, obviously if, if like something hurts, that's, that's different. You don't want to run through pain or like an injury, but like,

[00:25:58] if you just like feel like you're running through concrete, like you can barely move your body and your warmup. A lot of times that's just like your body flushing out a lot of the junk and the bad stuff. And that's the whole reason why it's called a warmup. I've even had long runs, like a two hour long run where the first hour feels terrible. And then the second hour feels amazing. So sometimes that just happens. Also like bad workouts.

[00:26:30] Bad workouts are something that some people worry about. Other people don't. Even the term bad workout is kind of a weird one. Because like, say I give someone a workout and it's like three by a mile at a certain pace. Let's say they struggle to hit that pace. They might feel bad. They might say that was a bad workout for the day. Is it really though?

[00:26:59] Like if that person worked hard, if they pushed as hard as they could, if they were going the right effort, maybe they weren't able to run that pace on the day because they were tired or I misjudged their training or something. But just because they didn't run it exactly on paper. Like, it's not like you get zero credit. Like, or like an F if you don't hit splits and work out or something. Like you still have gotten.

[00:27:26] If you ran it correctly, you still get the intended benefits of it. So maybe if you like miss your splits, that's like a B instead of an A or something. But it's not really that big of a deal. A lot of people are, can we work out warriors, like really crush workouts, really run faster than they're supposed to. Or just like consistently do workouts exactly as I write them. Pace and all. But then they struggle on race day.

[00:27:56] So there's not always this clear connection between how good your workouts go and how good your races go. I know some people who, and I'm one of them, where I feel like I often kind of struggle in my workouts. I don't necessarily hit the paces or I don't feel that great during them. But then I always feel like I race really well. Then I race to my ability most of the time.

[00:28:22] So it's just important to kind of like learn the type of runner that you are. And over the years, like gain this experience of like how the different days of the week and the different training elements fit into your overall training. And like, I don't know. When you have like a bad day, that's okay. And that's normal. You can always just refocus on the next important run. And it doesn't necessarily mean like your training is going bad.

[00:28:55] Yeah, those are just some thoughts on that. Yeah. And I agree with you. I've never really looked at workouts as a clear, defined pace I have to hit because circumstances are different, right? You live in a different place. I live in Florida. If I do my workout in the morning, it might be so different than when I do it in the middle of the day after you've eaten and all these variables. So I've always kind of just looked at workouts as an indicator.

[00:29:24] Okay, this is the pace that reflects this type of effort that my coach wants me to run. And to be honest with you, I hardly ever hit my workout indicated paces. But I've never been told to worry about that because it's more like this is the type of effort you're going to have to do. And depending on circumstances, I mean, they're always faster than what I actually hit. But then when race day comes, I am within that.

[00:29:53] I also think it's really interesting. I don't know if this is the case for you or if this is just me. But when I'm told to run a certain pace that is maybe not much faster than marathon pace for certain intervals, it feels so much harder than my Sunday run where I push hard for 14 miles. It's crazy. Like, say, for example, on the weekend, I'll run 14 miles at 730 pace. But then there's a workout where I'm supposed to do 715 for three minutes.

[00:30:21] And those three minutes seem like crazy. I can't do that. Yet on the weekend, you do 14 miles just 15 seconds slower, which what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. So I had a similar experience. I'm like kind of getting back into running after a low key winter. And last weekend, I ran 10 miles at like the average was like seven minute pace, which was let's say that's like.

[00:30:53] It wasn't like hard. I'd call it like a moderate kind of like a moderate ish pace. Like it felt like a fast, like feel good. Faster side of what I would consider easy into moderate. Right. It's pretty sore after that. Um, and yeah, pretty sore after that. But like I could do it. I didn't feel like I was dying. And then, um, yesterday I ran like a pretty basic fart lick. I did like, um, like a 30 minute warmup jog.

[00:31:21] And then I did like 20 minutes of alternating between one minute fast, one minute slow. And, um, and then like a cool down jog and like, yeah, the whole run was like seven and a half miles. I only averaged like 730 per mile. So like there was faster running in there, but the average was significantly slower. And I was like, so deep.

[00:31:45] Um, I think that like, that's the thing with, with running what's like truly fast or hard, um, versus what we would consider like, like a feel good fast pace or like a moderate pace. Um, is when you're truly running like faster than whatever your race pace is, it's pretty demanding on the body.

[00:32:09] Um, because we all develop like natural efficiencies for what event we're primarily training for. Like if you're primarily training for the marathon, Letty, you're probably fairly comfortable at like, like stronger, easy paces, marathon pace. But I would guess that like, once you start dipping into faster paces, it does feel a lot harder. Um, but likewise, last year I was training for the mile on the track and I started to find.

[00:32:38] Like mile pace to be really comfortable. Um, but then when I would run like stuff faster than marathon mile, sorry, stuff faster than mile pace, like that felt super fast. And then when I would run like 5k pace, that would feel really slow. Whereas for most marathoners, 5k pace feels really fast. So it's all kind of relative, but like whenever you're going out, whenever you're going faster than like what you're comfortable with. Yeah, it definitely plays a pretty big toll on the body.

[00:33:08] Um, one last thing that I have to share, which I think is really, really powerful is. One of my athletes, his name is Alex. I've been working with him for a few years and, um, he's for a long time had the goal of breaking three hours in the marathon. Um, he actually has a crazy story. His first marathon was like almost five hours. He like, he like, wasn't really a runner. He didn't really train for it. He was like kind of injured going into the race.

[00:33:37] So like he, I think he likes to think, kind of not think that was a real time, but he ran like 450 or something. Um, not really having been prepared. Then he came back next year. Um, maybe he like broke four. This, I think this was all like in the Boston marathon. Um, he like pretty quickly broke four and then, and then we teamed up. Um, you know, he, he kept improving from marathon to marathon.

[00:34:05] He got down to like under three 30, three 2315. Like he really wanted to break three and he was working towards that. Um, and it was actually for like the past two years that I knew he had the ability to break three. Um, because he had run some really good half marathons and 10 Ks and five Ks. Like that would demonstrate that he could break three in the marathon. Um, so we, he kept training for it. He kept preparing.

[00:34:33] Um, but then he would get to race day and circumstances would be such that, uh, probably wasn't going to happen. He basically had three marathons in a row that were really, really hot days, like unseasonably hot. Um, he ran the Providence marathon in like 85 degree weather. Then he ran the, um, I think it was like the Chicago marathon that year. That was, was that last year? That was two years ago. That was really hot.

[00:35:03] Um, I may have this timeline a little wrong. I think I do, but he ran the Boston marathon. I think last year when it was really hot, basically he kept getting bad days. And, um, but you know, he, he was a smart runner and he was well-prepared. So he was like getting little PRs in each of these races. Um, and he went from like, you know, like three 19 to three 15 to three 11 or something like that.

[00:35:30] Um, and we kept being like, Oh, we know you can break three. You're just not getting the right day. And, um, he just ran the Hyannis marathon here on Cape Cod, just like last month or earlier this month. And, and he, and he finally did it. He finally did it after like four, four or so marathons where we knew it was a possibility. And it was really, really cool to see. Um, you know, I'd been telling him that he's, he was capable of it for years.

[00:35:59] He, he stuck with it. He didn't give up. Um, but one of the things he shared with me after the race, uh, I thought was awesome. And what that was is that a couple of weeks before the race, he wrote down on a little piece of paper that he like hung on his door out to like leave his house. And on that, he wrote, um, you know, the highest marathon on this date, I'm going to run two

[00:36:25] 59 and I have, you know, the strong enough body, the strong enough mind to do so. And then he, he signed his name and he would look at that every single day as he headed out for his run before training. And, um, I thought that that was, that was so powerful. Um, I actually had done something very similar before I ran my half marathon PR a number of years ago.

[00:36:50] And I think like committing what you want to do, what your goal is to paper, looking at it literally every single day in the, maybe, you know, especially in the final days before a race, if that's what it is. And just telling yourself over and over again, like I, I can, and I will do this because I am capable of it. When you tell yourself that every single day, you, you, that's how you like develop the

[00:37:19] confidence, you instill the confidence in yourself. And then you completely trust that you can do it. You know, you can do it when the day comes. And then, um, yeah, he got to race day and he just did what he was capable of. I mean, there's no, like when you're, when you're able to do it and you're confident, you don't need to like rise above anything. You don't need to be like superhuman. You just have to do what you're capable of. Exactly. Um, I thought that was so powerful to see that. That's so cool.

[00:37:49] So the bottom line is confidence can come from your training and your coaching and all that. And really, I mean, when we show up on race day, that's just the icing on the cake. Hopefully we'll have a good day and do a good performance, but there's no magic that happens on race day. We've done the training and what we have in us.

[00:38:13] We just have to remember we have that with us and, you know, conditions of weather and race can obviously vary, but again, it just all comes down to what we've been doing in our training. So just remember that and take your confidence from that. Totally. Thank you, Chris, so much. And for our listeners of watchers, how can they find you on Instagram? Yeah, I'm on Instagram at night and runs. And, um, then my website is night and runs.com.

[00:38:43] Um, the, where I publish most of my stuff now is on my email list. So if you go to my website, you can sign up for that and I'll send you a free copy of my audio book on marathon training. Uh, that's at night and runs.com. And every week or so I'm sending out an email, uh, with new content related to this mental skills, uh, of course that I'm putting together. So if you want more information, uh, check me out on Instagram or on my website. Perfect. Thank you so much.

[00:39:13] You're welcome. Thank you, Chris, so much. That was really, really good and good information. As always, we can't wait for your book to come out. Stay tuned for next week because next week we actually got Tina Muir on the podcast, the sustainable runner. She's a previous elite runner, also a podcast host. And as I said, the sustainable runners, cause that's what she's known as. And she wrote a book. It's really, really a cool conversation that I did with her.

[00:39:42] So until next time, have a good week. Thanks for tuning in for more information. Go to www.marathonrunningpodcast.com or check us out on all channels.