232. Q&A with a Run Coach

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[00:00:30] In this episode, we're going to do a Q&A with a Running Coach.

[00:00:42] This is the Marathon Running Podcast by Letty and Ryan from WE GOT THE RUNS. Join us in our

[00:00:47] running community for weekly content that is motivational, educational, and inspirational.

[00:00:52] And let the Marathon Running Podcast take you from the starting line to the finish line and beyond.

[00:01:04] Hey runners and welcome to episode 232. My name is Letty.

[00:01:08] My name is Ryan.

[00:01:09] And we are back with another podcast. And this time we're going to do a Q&A with a running coach.

[00:01:15] So that's always good ways to get tips for modifying your training program.

[00:01:19] Yes. And it's also good for us to listen to our audience and see what topics they're really

[00:01:23] interested in. I mean, I always think that I come up with somewhat good topics that are relevant for

[00:01:29] the current time. You know, if there's fall races, etc. I want to make sure that we have some

[00:01:34] stuff that is relevant. But I think it's also interesting to see what people really Google

[00:01:40] and what they ask for.

[00:01:42] Yeah, what people are looking for that helps.

[00:01:44] Yeah, exactly.

[00:01:45] So Letty, in recent news, you're going to the New York City Marathon?

[00:01:49] Yes, I will be at the New York City Marathon. But guess what?

[00:01:53] What?

[00:01:54] I won't be running it.

[00:01:56] Why not?

[00:01:57] Well, it's super hard to get into the New York City Marathon these days. And I've already

[00:02:04] done it. So I think it's kind of nice to go and cheer for people.

[00:02:07] But despite not running in the marathon, you're going to be at the Expo, huh?

[00:02:11] Yes, I will be. We've been offered a slot at the Expo. They now have slots for podcasting. And

[00:02:17] our slot is going to be on Saturday, November 2nd, between the hours of 9am and 12pm.

[00:02:24] So please stop by and see Letty. She's planning to take interviews of people's running journeys

[00:02:30] and how they got to the New York City Marathon. And it would actually be great, I think, to share

[00:02:36] that with others and let them hear, you know, the stories of the runners. Plus, that's the

[00:02:41] best time to pick up your bid Saturday between 9am and noon, because that's when Lady's going

[00:02:46] to be there.

[00:02:47] Exactly. Notoriously, those Expos are dead on Saturdays.

[00:02:52] So along with that, we have also, on our YouTube channel, created a running guide for the New

[00:02:59] York City Marathon. So if you're running that thing, and it's your first time going, and you

[00:03:04] want to know about, you know, starting times, transportation, and all these little hacks and

[00:03:09] tricks and tips, then tune in onto our YouTube channel. I'm going to link that in the show notes.

[00:03:14] That video is now live, and hopefully it is helpful.

[00:03:17] So click like and subscribe.

[00:03:19] That too.

[00:03:20] So you want to get into the Q&A?

[00:03:22] Sure. So without any further ado, we're now going to play our conversation with a run coach.

[00:03:31] All right, so I'm on with coach Chris Knight. And Chris, thank you so much for joining me today

[00:03:36] for this amazing Q&A that we've got happening.

[00:03:39] Thanks, Lady. I'm happy to be back. I don't think we've ever done an episode like this before,

[00:03:43] but I'm excited for it.

[00:03:45] We have not, but you and I both reached out to our audiences and came up with some really

[00:03:49] good questions. And you saw the ones that you were sent. You haven't seen the ones I was sent.

[00:03:54] So I'm excited to kind of rattle you with those a little bit, if that's possible. I don't think

[00:03:59] you've ever been rattled.

[00:04:02] We'll see.

[00:04:03] All right.

[00:04:04] Maybe there's some stumpers.

[00:04:05] Exactly. All right. So let's start with the first question that I found very interesting.

[00:04:10] It's just more of a general question. And that comes from MacTheRunner.

[00:04:13] With the advancement in technology, why are elites still running a sub-209 marathon?

[00:04:19] And what is the Americans' plan to start winning races more frequently?

[00:04:23] And obviously, now that we had the Olympic marathon, we all watched it. We have great

[00:04:28] athletes, but there's still a huge gap, five minutes or whatever, between the Kenyans and

[00:04:35] the Americans. So maybe we can talk about that.

[00:04:37] Yeah. I've been thinking about this one a lot. And it's much easier to identify the problems,

[00:04:44] I think, than the solutions to how to bridge the gap between American-born runners and East

[00:04:50] African-born runners. I mean, we could have a whole episode on this. Letty, I'm curious

[00:04:57] to hear your thoughts too. But I mean, there's so many places to begin. So for one thing, there's

[00:05:06] many reasons why Americans are not competitive at the long distances compared to, I'm going

[00:05:16] to say, let's just talk about Kenyan and Ethiopia. In the middle distances, we are fairly competitive.

[00:05:25] We saw that this year. America did great in the middle distances in 800, 1500. We had some good

[00:05:31] running in the steeplechase. Even in the 5K, occasionally we get someone really good.

[00:05:38] Grant Fisher medaled this year in both the 5K and the 10K.

[00:05:43] I know some Americans like Christopher Schweizer and Louise Cranny did great in their events this

[00:05:49] year. We saw a couple medalists, American medalists in the steeplechase, I believe.

[00:05:55] But when it comes to those longer distances, like 10K and marathon, half marathon, yeah,

[00:06:01] both men and women from America really underperform. So many things. So there's a really great book.

[00:06:09] It's a little old now, but it's called Running with the Kenyans. And it's about a guy,

[00:06:15] I think he's either from England or Australia. He goes and he lives in Kenya for a while and he

[00:06:21] trains with a group. I think he's maybe in E10 that I can't remember. It's been a few years since

[00:06:26] I read it. And he talks about all like what it's like to train in Kenya. And he just identifies so many

[00:06:31] reasons why Kenyan athletes are the cream of the crop and we see them internationally performing so

[00:06:40] well. And then I think on the flip side, why we struggle to be that good here in America.

[00:06:49] I mean, just a few reasons. First of all, the talent pool we have here in America,

[00:06:57] even though we're a huge country, it's not as good. I'm a high school coach.

[00:07:03] Cross country and track is not a popular sport here in America. The kids who come out to do cross

[00:07:10] country and track and start running at an early age are generally kids who either get cut from other

[00:07:17] sports like basketball or soccer, or they're just kids who like don't really like generally,

[00:07:24] they're kind of nerdy introverted kids who maybe they just do a sport because their parents tell them

[00:07:28] to. They're not always the best athletes to begin with. And I can tell you, like I coach cross country,

[00:07:36] some of the best runners at our school, they don't run track or cross country. They do basketball,

[00:07:42] they do soccer. So like we're already starting with kind of a diluted talent pool.

[00:07:47] The other thing is like running in America has a diversity problem where generally young kids who

[00:07:57] do distance running are white and Hispanic and black kids and people from other cultures generally

[00:08:04] don't do distance running. It's more, it's more of a minority that do that. And that's an issue because

[00:08:09] there's plenty of really, really good distance runners who just don't pick up distance running

[00:08:14] because it's not, the culture around it is not welcoming or inclusive to them. So that's an issue

[00:08:22] too. We got a lot of kids, like I teach a lot of kids who want to be sprinters because their friends

[00:08:30] are sprinters. They think they identify with sprinter culture. They look like a sprinter, but I think they

[00:08:35] would be a great distance runner and those kids just don't necessarily try it. And that's an issue as

[00:08:39] well. Something we need to work on. You know, the financial motive is so different between

[00:08:47] training in East Africa and training in America. Like if you're Kenyan or in Ethiopia and earning

[00:08:58] money through running is a way to create generational wealth for your family, to help your community back

[00:09:05] home. Like many of the, many of the most successful African runners go on to create big change in their

[00:09:12] communities with the money that they earn. Whereas like, if you're an American, I mean, like your chances

[00:09:20] of becoming one of the best Americans are so slim. Like even if you become a pro, you're probably not

[00:09:23] going to get paid super well. Like, is it really worth it to go through all that for like such a

[00:09:29] questionable career when you could just do like a normal career path here in America? Whereas for,

[00:09:35] you know, someone from Canadian Ethiopia, it's often a way out of poverty. And for them, it is one of

[00:09:40] their best career paths potentially. There's so many other issues too. I mean, I don't even want to

[00:09:48] necessarily talk about issues surrounding like performance enhancing drugs, which are used by

[00:09:54] people all around the world. But if you look at, you know, people getting popped like every single

[00:10:02] week for performance enhancing drugs. So that's an issue in the sport. Thankfully, uh, anti-doping

[00:10:07] agencies are helping to deal with it, but it's an issue. Um, and then, uh, you know,

[00:10:14] why are we doing so good in the middle distances and the sprints, but not doing well in the, in the long

[00:10:20] distances, like the, you know, potentially there's, there's genetic factors at play. Like, I don't

[00:10:29] think, I think if you look at like studies, like there hasn't necessarily been much found, but like,

[00:10:37] but body shapes do play a role. Your genetic lineage does play a role. You know, I think people from East

[00:10:46] Africa born and raised at altitude with the genetic lineage, that's like, you know, good runners give

[00:10:53] birth to good runners, give birth to good runners. Like you become a better runner over time. Um,

[00:10:59] whereas here in America, generally we're not born at altitude, you know, generally, uh, we don't have

[00:11:04] those long litigages of good runners. Um, there, I don't know, there's a lot of issues. Um, I could

[00:11:12] rant on this all day and we could talk about it. Like occasionally we have someone who breaks

[00:11:16] through and is good. Like on men's side, we have Galen Rupp. Now we have like Connor Mance, um,

[00:11:23] uh, Canada had cam Levins, you know, they've all run like under 208 recently, I believe. Um, but

[00:11:32] we're still on the men's side. Like you need to be running two Oh three now to be competitive at a

[00:11:37] world stage and the women's side, honestly, uh, I don't like the times coming out of women's races are

[00:11:45] crazy right now. Those are some of the problems why we're not competitive, but, um, it's, it would

[00:11:51] take a lot, I think to create a talent pool that can rival these people. Like, I think one thing to

[00:11:59] keep in mind is the people you like often we don't hear, like we don't know that much about some of the

[00:12:08] Kenyan and Ethiopian runners. Cause like, you know, they live in a faraway land, they speak a different

[00:12:12] language. They don't, they're generally like pretty humble or in interviews. We don't really know much

[00:12:18] about them, but like the people we're seeing are also the cream of the crop. Like in their country,

[00:12:26] running is one of the most, it's the one, the most popular sports is the good sports. And there's

[00:12:31] thousands and thousands of people who want to be that person who then goes to the race and runs that

[00:12:35] incredible time. So like, it's just a bigger talent pool of people who like truly care about running and

[00:12:41] it's more impactful for them. Um, so that's some of the stuff I've been mulling over since you asked

[00:12:47] this question, Mac. I like it. You know, I, I think you're spot on with, um, financials and motivation,

[00:12:55] right? I just interviewed the number one Tanzanian marathon runner, which is Gabriel Giei. And I was

[00:13:01] talking to him about how he became a runner. Cause I just found that super interesting. And it was

[00:13:06] basically, you know, he was a child and he saw a big house and his mom says, Oh, this belongs to

[00:13:11] one of the runners. So it's kind of their way out of that lifestyle. And they definitely the money

[00:13:18] that they win in prize money in the United States goes a long way in Kenya versus here. Say for example,

[00:13:24] prize money for the New York city marathon, what is it? A hundred thousand dollars

[00:13:26] for the chance to win first place, right? Second place drops down to, I don't know, 65,

[00:13:33] something like that. But if you think about it, if that is your full-time career and you don't even

[00:13:38] know that you're going to get that compensation and you're putting in not just your money, but you're

[00:13:42] also spending money on coaches, you're spending money on rehab and prehab and all that stuff.

[00:13:50] You're not going to come out like you are definitely either needing spousal support,

[00:13:54] family support, or somebody to support you through the lifestyle for the chance to be number one,

[00:14:01] which definitely you have to be passionate about. But I think that's one of the reasons why,

[00:14:05] you know, you don't, you're not like, Oh, I'm going to go to college or I'm going to be a runner.

[00:14:09] It's just hard to maintain that lifestyle, even with, you know, brand sponsorships.

[00:14:17] Yeah. There's, there's so much with it. Um, we can keep training,

[00:14:21] we can keep training, but yeah. Um, all right. So that was, um, the question that we

[00:14:27] really liked from, uh, Mac, the runner. So then the next question that we have is from Tori

[00:14:35] and she says with AI coaches like runner and similar apps gaining popularity,

[00:14:40] what would you say are the major benefits of a human coach and how do human coaches have AI beat?

[00:14:46] And she wrote that in the context of being used to using human coaches, but many of her friends

[00:14:53] disagree and think that AI can do a great job, which, you know, to her kind of agreeing with her,

[00:15:00] AI has done a lot of stuff, can analyze a lot of data. So I'm actually really interested in this too.

[00:15:08] Yeah. So, um, I mean, I guess you got to take this with a grain of salt because I make my living as a

[00:15:14] human running coach. I'm not a computer, but I think that, um, the coaching is not about

[00:15:25] the training plan. It's about the relationship you have with that individual first and foremost,

[00:15:31] information about how to train correctly is readily available online. You can download free

[00:15:38] training plans. Um, you can work with a AI computer that makes a training plan for you based on some

[00:15:47] questions you have asked or some, you know, some goals you tell it. Um, and it will probably give

[00:15:54] you a pretty decent training plan. It's, I don't know, it's maybe not that different than the training

[00:16:00] plan I would initially write for you as an individual, but is the AI gonna get to understand

[00:16:07] your personality and is it going to, you know, talk to you and, and, and, and help you out when

[00:16:15] you're nervous about an upcoming race? Is it going to talk to you about, you know, is it going to

[00:16:20] analyze how you perform your runs and what your strengths and weaknesses are, and then have a

[00:16:25] conversation with you about how to best approach your upcoming race, um, and deal with some of the

[00:16:32] challenges that you've had in the past? Uh, is it going to talk to you about your fueling

[00:16:37] nutrition and give you straightforward answers that you can trust about like gear and, um, you know,

[00:16:45] what the best gels to take are and how to deal with them when, uh, you're, you're literally choking

[00:16:50] on a gel. I had a question, I had a question from an athlete this week. I was choking on a gel

[00:16:55] halfway through my run. What do you think I should do? Is an AI going to answer that? Like in a way that

[00:17:01] you think is like, you know, the AI will say, eat your gels more slowly and drink water. And you know

[00:17:10] what, that's what I said too, but a computer is not compassionate. It isn't a real person that hasn't

[00:17:16] been there doing it before. It's just spitting out some pre-programmed response that you know is fake,

[00:17:23] um, or, you know, it was just like whatever it was programmed into say. Um, you know, also here's

[00:17:31] the other thing, like what is AI, uh, um, training plans based off of like, is it based off of,

[00:17:41] is it based off of the Garmin watch that you wear and it's monitoring your heart rate all the time?

[00:17:45] Because like my wife wears one of those, some of my runners wear those, like the recommendations it

[00:17:50] gives are ridiculous. Like they're constantly saying you should take a rest day. Like you

[00:17:55] over-trained or your training is unproductive or like you need more sleep and all this stuff.

[00:18:01] And I mean, it's frankly, it's just kind of ridiculous. Like the GPS or so like heart rate

[00:18:10] data first and foremost is like not accurate. It's making inferences and telling you what you should

[00:18:16] do based off heart rate data and variability and all this stuff. Like that stuff's not that accurate

[00:18:21] and it doesn't, it's also not the total picture. Like maybe like, it doesn't know if you're tired.

[00:18:31] It doesn't know if you're sore. You can't ask it a question and it will like modify your training

[00:18:36] plan or like, I don't know, maybe it will, but it's, here's the thing. If you use a, if you use

[00:18:43] like an AI program to coach you, that's basically coaching yourself. That's basically the same thing

[00:18:50] as downloading a, a training program offline and just following it, except you're working with this

[00:18:57] interactive one where like it can maybe modify it a little bit or answer some questions for you.

[00:19:02] It's not working with a real person who's, who's encouraging, who's sympathetic, who,

[00:19:11] like who you're accountable to, like who's accountable to a paper training plan. Um,

[00:19:18] a lot less people than are accountable to their actual coach who they invest with. Um,

[00:19:24] I mean, it's just not the same thing. And yeah, no, I have to agree. I mean, unless AI knows your

[00:19:32] personality, knows literally everything about you, knows your reaction, knows the little things

[00:19:38] that you have got going on with kids that they, it's exactly like you said, it's like following

[00:19:42] a paper plan, which there are some great plans out there, but it really depends on what your goal is.

[00:19:47] If you're trying to really succeed at something, then obviously a running coach is the way to go.

[00:19:52] If you're just trying to dabble and check off some stuff, then, you know, AI might be the right

[00:19:57] way for you and your coach won't be as frustrated with you for not, um, going a little bit harder on

[00:20:02] yourself. But, uh, yeah, I have to agree with you, um, just because it's so different. And I think AI is

[00:20:08] great. I use that for my work all the time, more for like, in lieu of using a secretary for my legal

[00:20:15] work, I tell some AI program what to do and it'll spit it out for me. But when it comes to getting

[00:20:22] to know your personality, your sleep cycle, your fact that, you know, today you had a hurricane,

[00:20:27] so you're, you can't run and you didn't sleep well last night, you know, all that little stuff,

[00:20:32] a run coach is really the way to go. Yeah. Um, I'm like a very anti-technology coach. I'm all about

[00:20:39] running by feel like, yeah, sure. Use your GPS watch, but like learn to run by field. Don't,

[00:20:44] I don't look at heart rate. I don't look at any of that stuff. Um, you know, just, just a few more

[00:20:50] examples, like this training cycle. I had a woman who had, um, like really bad pain at the beginning of

[00:20:57] her training cycle and wasn't able to run for like a month. And then as we built her up to get her

[00:21:02] ready for her marathon, we had to like really change her training plan. And like, it was a day

[00:21:06] by day thing. And I didn't train, I didn't build out her training more than like a week in advance

[00:21:12] or even a few days in advance because every day she would tell me how, how she felt and I would

[00:21:18] build her training based on that. And, um, now she's in a great place where she is ready for her

[00:21:24] marathon. She has plenty of speed. She definitely has speed to PR, but because her training cycle

[00:21:30] is so compressed, um, maybe she doesn't have as much endurance. Like she didn't do as many long

[00:21:35] runs, for example, that kind of thing. And like, you just no way, especially at me, obviously the

[00:21:42] stuff is going to get better over time, but there's no way AI is going to be able to develop like that

[00:21:47] kind of training plan with you and develop. And you're not going to have that kind of trust with

[00:21:52] the system to think like, Oh, this is going to understand me. And it's going to help me through

[00:21:56] this injury. And, um, I'm going to believe this 100% and have faith in the system that it's going

[00:22:03] to get me to my marathon. And I'm going to be totally confident. Whereas my athlete right now

[00:22:07] is going into this marathon. I think as confident as she can be. And basically we turned a bad

[00:22:12] situation into a really good one. Um, and another, another example, like you mentioned this,

[00:22:18] like, yeah, he doesn't know what's going on with your kids. I have another woman who's really

[00:22:22] experienced this marathoner. Um, you know, she was dealing with some, some, some, some family

[00:22:28] challenges just with her kids this season. Um, you know, I think that was weighing heavily on

[00:22:32] her mind at times. And, um, we mixed up our training quite a bit. Like we did a lot more running

[00:22:37] by effort. Whereas in the past we would run to hit target paces and stuff like that. And, you know,

[00:22:42] I think at some point in the training cycle, maybe she was not that motivated, but then at some

[00:22:47] point that that switched because, you know, just the ongoing conversations we were having,

[00:22:53] having, and it's a lot more than just about your running that makes you a good runner. It's the

[00:22:58] mental aspect of it too. It's like, it's about your life. And now again, she's almost going to do her

[00:23:04] fall marathon. I think she's really excited. She's ready. I think she has the ability to run a strong

[00:23:09] race, hopefully even run a PR. Um, but this was a very different training cycle emotionally and

[00:23:14] mentally, I think for this, it's just, that's not something that right now is going to help.

[00:23:20] Unless we are human robots, that would be kind of hard. All right. So I'm going to move on to the

[00:23:25] next question. And the next question, this person says, I would be interested in knowing their

[00:23:30] thoughts on high intensity interval training versus longer interval trainings from marathon.

[00:23:34] Is there a combo of HIIT and long intervals that work better for distance runners? And also how would

[00:23:42] that fluctuate for people as they age? Uh, good question. So this is one of yours, Ladi.

[00:23:50] Yes. Um, so high intensity interval training, uh, does this person mean like in regards to running,

[00:24:00] doing high intensity intervals or doing more like, um, yes, I think this is meant in regards to running.

[00:24:06] Okay. So certainly it's, it serves, uh, a purpose and value. Um, but whenever you're training for an

[00:24:14] event, you want to make sure you're doing primarily event specific work. So, um, in my book, run faster

[00:24:21] marathons, I talk about the six phases of marathon training and how to sequence, uh, your marathon

[00:24:26] training over time. And basically as, uh, as you get closer and closer to your marathon, you want to

[00:24:34] start doing more event specific work and less types of runs that are not so specific to the marathon.

[00:24:43] The way I sequence it is first, you want to do a base building phase where you build your mileage,

[00:24:48] mostly easy running, and you do a fair number of, uh, strides strides are actually very short,

[00:24:55] high intensity intervals. Um, they're so short that really they're not hard, but quick running that

[00:25:02] helps maintain your speed, but they're not quite workouts. Um, not really specific to running a

[00:25:07] marathon, uh, doing a stride is, but strides are something we always want to be doing to work on

[00:25:11] our running form and quickness. Um, then I go into what's called the speed development phase,

[00:25:17] and this is where you would be doing some high intensity intervals. So, uh, you know what that

[00:25:22] would look like for a marathoner is going to be very different than what it would look like for

[00:25:26] someone training for a 5k, for example. Um, but for a marathoner, you'd be doing things like,

[00:25:32] uh, 400s, 800s, um, maybe like thousands or 1200s at 5k to 10k pace, uh, with a good amount of recovery.

[00:25:44] So these intervals would be like three to five minutes in length, 5k to 10k pace. That's pretty

[00:25:51] hard for most marathoners. Um, and that would be what I call high intensity intervals. But then as

[00:25:58] you get into the, uh, like two months, um, maybe two and a half months before your marathon, you really

[00:26:05] want to hone on, hone into these longer intervals, uh, that you asked about. So doing more event

[00:26:14] specific workouts. So really things like tempo runs, uh, tempo runs going to be anywhere from like 10k

[00:26:20] to marathon pace and for a long duration of time. So one mile repeats a little faster than marathon

[00:26:27] pace, two mile repeats, three mile repeats. Um, and then like long chunks at marathon pace.

[00:26:33] So maybe you do a run in the middle of the week. That's like a 10 mile or medium long run in the

[00:26:40] middle six to eight miles or at marathon pace. Maybe you do the long runs on the weekend where

[00:26:46] you're doing the majority of your running at marathon pace and you do that every other week.

[00:26:51] Um, that stuff is very important as you get closer to your marathon and the high intensity intervals

[00:26:56] are less important as you get close to your marathon. Um, is, is any of that approach,

[00:27:01] would you say would that change as people age?

[00:27:03] As people age? Uh, no, not necessarily. Uh, so I'm actually working on my second book right now,

[00:27:13] Ageless Track Star, which is all about how to become a track runner and run short distances from 800

[00:27:20] meters to 5k on the track as a master's athlete. So, um, as long as you're doing it correctly and it's

[00:27:29] appropriate to you, I think people of all ages, uh, can do higher intensity intervals and they can be

[00:27:34] really helpful. You just want to make sure that it's appropriate for you and you're not, you know,

[00:27:39] over, you know, overworking yourself. Um, so that's why working with a coach can be helpful.

[00:27:44] Awesome. Perfect. All right. So onto the next question, Sarah is asking the question about

[00:27:51] the fact that there's so many different training plans and coaching styles. How do you know when a plan

[00:27:56] approach doesn't work for you anymore? Or basically she's asking how long should you try to get used

[00:28:04] to it before you decide that this is just not for you? That's a great question. Um, so whenever you

[00:28:13] subscribe to a training program or working with a coach, it's in your best interest to have faith in

[00:28:23] that program and give it 100%. It'll likely challenge you in new ways, have you do different

[00:28:30] things. It's best if you just say, Hey, I'm going to give this my best shot. I would say six months.

[00:28:38] Well, I would say six months or a full training cycle, right? Like if it's a marathon program,

[00:28:43] whatever that is, four months, six months, uh, if it's a training plan, if it's working with a

[00:28:49] coach, I would say six months. Um, in six months of working with a coach, you should be able to tell

[00:28:58] if you're getting results and if you're enjoying it. Um, you know, obviously if there's like a

[00:29:05] personality clash, you might understand that much earlier. Like if you really don't like working with

[00:29:11] someone within the first month, uh, you know, obviously give them a chance, but, um, that might

[00:29:18] be an issue. But if it's just training style, I would say give, give it six months and see if you

[00:29:23] like it. Um, because often, you know, sometimes I get runners and I don't have them do like any,

[00:29:29] any workouts, even if they want to do fast running, I'll just be like, Hey, like,

[00:29:32] I don't think you should, let's just like run easy and build up your mileage for like a couple months.

[00:29:37] Um, and, and we hear, we hate to hear that, right. Cause we love instant gratification.

[00:29:43] So I don't know. There's all sorts of different things. Uh, but I would give it a, yeah, yeah.

[00:29:49] Four to six, I would say six months. Yeah. I mean, and, and I can just add to that, you know,

[00:29:53] especially if whoever is dealing with a situation like that, a lot of times, the more competitive we

[00:30:01] are, the more we have some sort of free established thoughts about how things should,

[00:30:06] work. And sometimes that's not right. So I am a huge advocate for, if you're going to hire an

[00:30:14] expert and let them be the expert and let them do the role because you know, they're running coach for

[00:30:18] a reason. And then you can always decide, you know, within that six months that this is not for you.

[00:30:24] Yeah. A few other thoughts. I mean, so you absolutely have to give faith to your coach

[00:30:30] or the training program. If you're questioning it, it will not work. And you're just wasting your time

[00:30:35] and money. You have to, the whole point of getting a coach or following a training plan

[00:30:40] is so you can just trust it and do it and have faith in it. You can't, you will. I mean,

[00:30:45] you can ask questions. You want to learn, understand what you're doing, but if you're doubting,

[00:30:49] if it's the right thing, it's not going to work. Um, but often, yeah, change can be good.

[00:30:55] So if you've been doing the same type of training for a long time or working with the same coach for a

[00:31:01] long time, mixing it up can be good. And that doesn't always mean changing coaches or changing

[00:31:07] programs. Sometimes it just means having a conversation about like, Hey, I've been doing

[00:31:11] this style of workout or this style of running for a while. I want to mix it up. Um, so this is

[00:31:17] something that I've been doing with some of my athletes now who I've been coaching for one number

[00:31:23] of years. Like I have a few people this fall who are doing a marathon who I probably coach them for

[00:31:30] four or more marathons. And I often do similar types of workouts with my athletes. Um, and maybe

[00:31:37] we just increase mileage or distance or something like that. But with a few of my athletes this year,

[00:31:42] I was like, I can't just, I just don't want to give them the same workouts again because they've

[00:31:46] literally been doing this with me four or five or six times even. And like, I don't want to give

[00:31:52] them the same stuff again, because they're going to get, they're going to stagnate and you need to

[00:31:57] mix it up. So, um, sometimes it could just be a conversation of talking to your coach and being

[00:32:02] like, you know, Hey, can we mix it up? Because there's many different ways to get to an end

[00:32:07] point, right? You, you can do this type of workout. You can do that type of workout.

[00:32:11] Mileage can be different, like many different ways to get to where you want to be.

[00:32:16] Exactly. And if you have a good coach, they'll help you navigate that.

[00:32:19] Very awesome. All right. So we have the next question coming from Jude who has completed the

[00:32:25] Sydney marathon and 90% of her training had been done with deep water running training. So I'm assuming

[00:32:32] we're assuming it's going to be aqua jogging for that because of plantar fasciitis issues. So she's

[00:32:37] asking if there's any research evidence showing its effectiveness rather than just anecdotal evidence,

[00:32:43] apart from the pounding on, uh, on race day, you know, the leg pounding. So she wants to know if

[00:32:50] coaches do implement this aqua jogging into training programs as a valid form of cross training.

[00:32:59] Yeah. Well, um, Jude was that her name? Congrats to you for finishing the Sydney marathon. That's

[00:33:08] awesome. I heard that was really hard course. Um, and to do it with primarily only aqua jogging is,

[00:33:15] is awesome. Uh, I, I think aqua jogging is considered probably the best form of cross training

[00:33:25] when runners are injured, just because of the mechanics that you use when you're aqua jogging,

[00:33:32] of moving your arms and legs and your posture is the most similar to that of running. And, and you can

[00:33:40] do similar types of workouts in a pool, aqua jogging that you could do when running, um, intervals,

[00:33:50] threshold, that kind of thing. And it's fully non-impact. So when people are, are injured,

[00:33:58] it's, it's a great way to cross train. Um, people who have stress fractures can do this. Whereas,

[00:34:04] you know, even something as low impact as the elliptical or the bike can often be discouraged

[00:34:10] for people who have a leg stress fracture, for example. So aqua jogging is a great form of cross

[00:34:16] training. Um, you asked in your question what he was, it was there, is there research showing that it's,

[00:34:25] that it's effective? Yeah. If you knew of any research showing its effectiveness, rather just,

[00:34:31] um, the anecdotal evidence. I just know for anecdotal, I don't know. I don't know. I don't

[00:34:35] really look at research, but from anecdotal evidence, um, this is, this is what, uh, most

[00:34:42] high level coaches recommend, um, college athletes, professional athletes, uh, high school runners,

[00:34:51] when they have access to a pool. This is the best form of cross training that we can do, uh, when we're

[00:34:56] injured generally. Um, though obviously every type of injury is different. So, so it's, it's good that

[00:35:02] you're able to do it. Um, is it a, something to implement into a training program when you're not

[00:35:08] injured? Sure. Um, I guess if you want to, um, so one thing is like no form of cross cross training is

[00:35:17] never as good as running. Um, running is the best cardiovascular exercise to get better at running.

[00:35:26] Um, but cross training is a good way to mix it up. You know, I have a lot of people who ride bikes.

[00:35:31] I ride bikes. Um, I have people who row, I have people who, uh, do Pilates, um, swim. I've never

[00:35:41] had anyone say they want to do aqua jogging, um, unless they were injured, but I guess if you enjoy

[00:35:47] it, sure. Um, most people find aqua jogging pretty boring if they, if they don't need to do it. Um,

[00:35:54] but if you like it, go for it. Um, you can definitely incorporate it. You know, one thing I sometimes have

[00:36:01] people do is workouts cross training because it is low impact. So if maybe I have an older athlete

[00:36:09] or someone who has a history of injury and I want to give them two workouts per week, two hard

[00:36:16] workouts per week, we'll do one workout thing because it is important to get specific stimulus

[00:36:25] from running the impact of that building your muscles strength and your tendon strength and all

[00:36:29] this sort of stuff from running. But then I'll give them a secondary workout. That's a cross training

[00:36:34] workout. So no impact. So maybe it's a bike workout or swimming workout or an aqua jogging workout.

[00:36:41] And that's a great way to get a second strong cardiovascular stimulus, but with no impact on

[00:36:49] your body. Um, so I do that quite a bit actually with, with my athletes. Um, if for some reason they

[00:36:57] maybe can't do two hard running workouts per week. So, um, you know, any coach can incorporate this

[00:37:04] stuff if they're, if they're a good coach and willing to work with you. So, uh, it's an option

[00:37:09] out there. Yeah. Perfect. And dude, just to let you know, when I had my broken ankle last year,

[00:37:15] I'm not a biker and I did aqua jogging for two months because I broke my ankle two months prior to

[00:37:21] the Boston marathon. And I felt like aqua jogging was the only workout where I could actually elevate my

[00:37:26] heart rate similar to running everything else. If I'm biking and biking hard, but I must be doing

[00:37:31] something wrong. Cause I don't get that heart rate. I don't get that same type of sweat going

[00:37:35] and you get to do it outside, right? You get to be in a pool. So I think mentally it's kind of nice

[00:37:41] too. Yeah. Uh, that that's interesting about the heart rate thing. Um, I had an athlete who I helped

[00:37:48] come back from a lower leg stress fracture. She was actually one of my high school athletes

[00:37:52] and she did most of her cross training on the elliptical and she would do two workouts per week

[00:37:57] on the elliptical. So like a tempo workout and interval workout, and she really struggled to

[00:38:01] get her heart rate up on those. Um, and I, and I think on the bike, it can be a similar kind of thing.

[00:38:07] Um, we didn't have access to a pool, so we didn't use it, but that's great to hear that it worked for you,

[00:38:13] buddy. Yeah. It was fun, fun stuff. All right. Moving on to the next question. This person is

[00:38:19] asking if the running coach can explain to the running community, the importance of strength

[00:38:24] training. If the coach believes in it, she, or he has noticed that a lot of running coaches have in

[00:38:31] common, the lack of understanding of the impact strength training have and the benefits of strength

[00:38:36] training for runners. And he or she is talking about strength training using actual weights and not

[00:38:41] about body weight. Yeah. Um, most running coaches don't care about it because it's really not that

[00:38:50] important. And that's my, my, my, uh, take on it. Body weight exercises are important. Um, they're

[00:38:57] good at preventing injury. Um, they are good for maintaining, uh, core strength, flexibility,

[00:39:05] mobility, mobility, that kind of thing. Um, heavier lifting, you know, people talk about it being

[00:39:13] helpful or saying like, as you age, it can be more helpful, but, um, generally like strength

[00:39:21] training is always a very supplemental thing compared to the running that you're doing. Uh,

[00:39:27] it's, it's, it's different. Strength training plays more of a role when you're like, uh, obviously when

[00:39:32] you're a sprinter, uh, when you're a middle distance runner plays more of a role, the longer out you go,

[00:39:39] the less important it is. Um, I think it's something that sounds sexy and people can sell

[00:39:46] it and say that it really matters and it's important. Um, and, and I'm not saying that it's

[00:39:50] not, and I do provide basic strength training recommendations to my runners, but people get

[00:40:02] good at running by running and they stay healthy by running well, um, eating, eating well, mobility,

[00:40:12] flexibility, core exercises, some basic strength, you know, doing heavier lifts and stuff like that.

[00:40:19] It's not going to turn you into a great runner if you're not one already. So that's my take on it.

[00:40:26] It doesn't matter. Yes. A little bit, but most pro runners aren't really lifting that much.

[00:40:33] Um, what about, um, you know, cause there are a lot of articles like runners world and all that

[00:40:39] stuff that say you have to lift heavy. I think we've been seeing that a lot lately. Um,

[00:40:46] uh, I don't think most runners are lifting. Most good runners are lifting heavy. Um,

[00:40:52] um, Kenny and Ethiopian runners who talked about them earlier. They don't, they do not lift heavy.

[00:40:57] Um, they do bodyweight exercises, um, here in the QEJIC system in the U S most running coaches

[00:41:06] have access to weight rooms and yeah, we use them a little bit. I use it a little bit at,

[00:41:12] at the high school level. I use a lot more with my sprinters, um, cause for them having muscular

[00:41:18] strength matters, um, for, for distance runners, if you're looking for performance,

[00:41:25] it's just not that important. I'm not saying it's not important, but I, I, I would say someone

[00:41:33] who's saying to you that you have to lift heavy to be a good distance runner is just selling you like

[00:41:41] snake oil. Okay. And does your, uh, training approach vary?

[00:41:48] If you have somebody like, for example, we saw Conor, we saw the Olympic marathon happening in

[00:41:54] Paris, right? So we saw the Americans kind of documenting their journey to the race and they

[00:42:00] had their strength coach and they were doing, they were approaching it differently than they were,

[00:42:05] for example, last year, Chicago marathon. What are your thoughts on that?

[00:42:09] Um, yeah. So, I mean, if you have a hard course, you want to be prepared for it. You always want to

[00:42:15] train for the specificity of the course. And one of the things with marathon running is being a strong

[00:42:25] runner is important to run a good marathon, to not have a muscular breakdown and get fatigued and get

[00:42:33] sore. But the way that you do that is not going to be through lifting heavy and building super strong

[00:42:41] legs. Generally, it's going to be through adequately training. Um, most, I'm not saying it doesn't help.

[00:42:55] Like it can help a little bit, but time spent, okay. Time spent in the gym lifting beyond maybe like

[00:43:06] a couple hours a week is wasted time. You'd be better off running more or cross training or resting.

[00:43:17] Um, that's, that's my opinion. And, uh, if you're listening to this and you firmly believe that

[00:43:25] every runner should be out there, you know, doing heavy weight lifting sessions,

[00:43:32] and you're not going to be a good runner message me and send me your, your, your stuff, then I'm not

[00:43:40] saying it's not helpful. And if you're already doing all the other stuff, yeah, maybe you can lift

[00:43:44] heavy a little bit, but, um, I think this is one of those things to get that gets sold online as like,

[00:43:52] you know, lift heavy and you will be cute or something. And it's just not the truth.

[00:43:59] Okay. All right. So let's move on to another person's question. He or she wants to know more

[00:44:05] about cadence and if a high cadence of 180 to 195 is okay. And what is the downside of his or her high

[00:44:15] cadence? Um, high cadence is better than low cadence. Everyone has a different natural running form.

[00:44:24] High cadence generally means that you're taking short quick steps, which is better than long

[00:44:30] bounding steps as a distance runner. It means you have fast leg turnover, which is something that we

[00:44:34] want to develop. It probably means you're landing more on your mid to four foot, which is good. And

[00:44:40] you're probably landing less on your heel, which is discouraged, not necessarily bad. Um,

[00:44:51] I think cadence is widely another thing that's why we misunderstood in running. There's no one

[00:44:57] perfect cadence and there's tons of running books that say that there is, and there's all this like

[00:45:01] misinformation that 180 is the perfect cadence. And, but that's total nonsense. You, your cadence

[00:45:07] varies depending on how fast you're running. If you run a 10 minute mile, you run a slow cadence,

[00:45:12] much slower cadence than if you're running a five minute mile. Um, the most important thing is that

[00:45:19] you focus on your running form and you're running, uh, you want to be running tall, which means standing,

[00:45:28] standing erect, pelvis forward, knees getting up high, quick feet. Um, not these like big bounding steps,

[00:45:36] fast, fast moving arms means that your legs are moving fast too. Um, and wanting to be landing more,

[00:45:48] yeah, more on your mid foot. Um, you know, I sometimes see, see people who are running for

[00:45:54] us. One of those things that when you see someone in their running form is, looks kind of weird. You

[00:45:58] like it, you can immediately pick it up. If you, if you're someone who's knowledgeable about running

[00:46:02] and running form and, uh, you know, if I had the opportunity to work with that person, I could

[00:46:07] probably help them over time gradually. But, um, running form is something that you need to

[00:46:12] constantly be paying attention to. And, and, you know, maybe every mile when, if your watch beeps

[00:46:17] every mile or something like that, um, just check in with your body and like do a posture check and

[00:46:23] make sure that you're running form is good and that you're, you're not running too slow cadence.

[00:46:28] Um, most people I find don't struggle with too high cadence, but occasionally people do. And it

[00:46:35] sounds like the person asking this question does. Um, but I don't know, maybe, maybe if you're

[00:46:43] listening to this, you could send me a video of you personally running on my Instagram at night and

[00:46:48] runs, if you want any form critique or commentary, and I can help you with that and be happy to,

[00:46:53] uh, for free. Um, but, uh, there's no magic cadence. I'll say that.

[00:47:00] That's it actually really, that's really nice of you, Chris. And that's a really good idea because

[00:47:03] obviously the cadence is something completely dependent on the person, the size of the person,

[00:47:09] the way they run. So that's, uh, I guess a good way of approaching is by looking at the running form

[00:47:13] in general. Oh yeah. Good, good, good, good, uh, point, right? Like shorter people generally have

[00:47:20] higher cadence than taller people, taller people, longer legs have slower cadence to go the same

[00:47:25] speed. There's no one magic number for everyone. Okay, perfect. Well, I think that, um, that's it,

[00:47:32] Chris. That's, uh, all the questions that we've got within the last two days. I appreciate your time.

[00:47:37] Um, and if people want to get in touch with you and ask questions or submit their commentary,

[00:47:42] how can they best reach you? Uh, yeah. So best way to get in touch is, uh, through my website,

[00:47:49] night and runs.com. You can sign up for my newsletter and get a free copy of my audio book,

[00:47:56] run faster marathons by doing so. Uh, I send out a weekly email with, uh, you know, whatever's on my

[00:48:03] mind at the, at the time. Um, this past week, I sent out an email all about some, uh, some,

[00:48:11] some confidence building, uh, information about people getting ready to run, uh, the Berlin marathon

[00:48:18] and saying that, yes, you can run your marathon goal pace, believe in yourself and talking about

[00:48:23] that. Um, and you can always reply to those emails and I'd be happy to talk with you. Uh, I'm also on

[00:48:29] Instagram. I post successes mostly of my own athletes. Uh, you can follow that at night and

[00:48:36] runs and, um, yeah, hopefully you like this. If you, if you agree or disagree with any of the stuff I

[00:48:43] had to say today, uh, shoot me a message. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:48:47] So thank you so much for coming on, Chris. I appreciate it.

[00:48:50] You're welcome.

[00:48:55] Thank you, Chris, for giving us your opinion and your tips for these questions. We always

[00:49:01] appreciate you on here. And if you like Chris's training philosophy, you can always hit him up

[00:49:08] for some training. Absolutely. And stay tuned for next week. What are we talking about next week?

[00:49:14] We're going to talk to a dietitian about a holiday eating guide because it is the time of the year

[00:49:20] where slowly, but surely Halloween candy, pumpkin pies, and Christmas goodies are going to be snuck

[00:49:26] into the office available for everyone to munch on. And so we are trying to always help our runners.

[00:49:33] So the guide can help you navigate the holiday season. Exactly. And with that, have a good week of

[00:49:40] running. Thanks for tuning in for more information and marathon running news. Please head to

[00:49:50] www.marathonrunningpodcast.com and we'll be back next week.